Wednesday, May 6, 2009

Fung Sui?

Hi All,

A lengthy posting by Dr.Ong of Guiculture from the Traditional Fengshui Yahoo Group for you to slowly read, ha-ha.......Too lazy to do any posting today.

Shen Zhu Reng "stole" the manual of Zhong Seng Zhan in early 1900s. So, he was
not fully aware what the inner circle of Zhong Seng Zhan teaches. The famous
master Tan Yang Wu was of the lineage of Zhong Seng Zhan and a main student down
the line is Master Francis Leyau. I have written with Francis Leyau a book of
his school Flying Stars. I will just re-quote from the book:

An effect of the time in the Flying Star Feng Shui is the concept of the
locations of the Zheng Shen (Direct Spirit) and Ling Shen (Indirect Spirit).
In any Period, the Zheng Shen location is that of the Lo Shu sector represented
by the number. For the Period 7, the Lo Shu sector represented by 7 is West,
which is therefore the Zheng Shen location. The opposite location would be the
Ling Shen (Indirect Spirit) location.

The Zheng Shen location is auspicious, while the Ling Shen location is
inauspicious. The inauspiciousness of the Indirect Spirit location is that, in
the said Period, it is often the location of the number 5, the inauspicious
Yellow Star. For Period 5, during the first 10 years the Zheng Shen location is
6, while the Ling Shen location is 4. For Period 5, during the second 10 years
the Zheng Shen location is 4, while the Ling Shen location is 6. These rules of
external forms are important:

Water is allowed in the Indirect Spirit location but not that of the Direct
Spirit. Mountain is allowed in the Direct Spirit location but not that of the
Indirect Spirit. In the Upper Yuns of 1 to 4 and the first 10 years of Yun 5,
water is allowed in the Lo Shu sectors 6,7,8,9. In the Lower Yuns of 6 to 9 and
the second 10 years of Yun 5, water is not allowed in the Lo Shu sectors

Hence, the area to have mountains differs in the two schools! According to
Joseph Yu's presentation the mountain will have to be at least in the East.
However, in the inner Zhong Seng Zhan school, according to their Zheng Shen-Ling
Shen theory, the mountain has to be in the West and forbidden in the East!

In the Zheng Shen-Ling Shen method of Xuan Kong Liu Fa school, for Period 7, the
mountain coincidentally has to be at Dui at W, while the water is to be at Zhen
at E. However, for some other Periods, the Liu Fa identification of the
mountain area may be different from that of Zhong Seng Zhan school.

That is, the different Xuan Kong groups can have different contradicting
prognosis! So, you have the problem of who is right and wrong?

Even though I know much of the "inner secrets" of the Zhong Seng Chan's school,
I am not a supporter of Flying Stars. My reason is simple, based on the
historical testimony of traditional Chinese architecture. The traditional
Chinese palaces and tomb complexes have entrances facing South. There was hardy
any entrances facing the northsides! A major portion (a least one third) of the
Flying Stars charts are nonsense.

The Liu Fa group attacked the Flying Star use of the physical door facing to
determine the "flight of the numbers." This Liu Fa rule may be more correct.
However, I am not a supporter of Liu Fa - their 9 Eras theory conficts with
astronomical evidence.

The line quoted by Joseph Yu occurs as line QNX 2.49-2.50 in this context:

QNX 2.45, 2.46: 24 Mountains have two formula of calculations. Not many
masters today understand this theory.

QNX 2.47, 2.48: Five Elements are distributed within the 24 Mountains, how
many masters to day have remembered this formula.

QNX 2.49, 2.50: Dragon from the mountain does not get into the water, same as
water dragon does not climb up the mountain.

QNX 2.51, 2.52: Apply this method of calculation to the mountain and water and
hundred of miles of mountain and water can be measured within a short time.

QNX 2.53, 2.54: Another method is to calculate completely Yang and completely
Yin. Eight feet to the front and back must not be in the mess.

QNX 2.55, 2.56: To choose sloping or straight all depends on the Yin and Yang.
When qi is in line with the sheng and wang ["vital and strong" as also in QNX
2.59 and 2.60] there will not contain any sha.

QNX 2.57, 2.58: Must have the knowledge of incoming mountain and humps, does not
matter whether it consists of three or four joints.

QNX 2.59, 2.60: After all, if the dragon spirit is vital and strong, unusual Yin
Yang will be in the hsueh.

There are at least two methods of determination. What the warring schools do
not realise is that for both methods to be valid, lines QNX 2.57-2.58 show that
there must be actual observations of the physical mountains and water flows.
Line QNX 2.52 shows that you have to observe a wide expanse of area before
concluding - you have to go out there in the field and examine the physical

You cannot just sit within a room and do some calculations. Then hey prestos,
you recommend that water should be placed here or there and a large piece of
rock here or there. The Qing Nang Xu Feng Shui is never meant for small areas
like individual buildings as it was meant for large areas capable of
accommodating whole cities!

This passage of Zeng Wen Chan was further elaborated by his master Yang Yun Sung
in his "Zheng Shen-Ling Shen" section in Tian Yu Jing. Almost all current
masers admit they found Tian Yu Jing difficult to understand. I am afraid they
all got what Yang Yun Sung meant muddled up! I think you have to wait for my
publication on the complicated Tian Yu Jing at a future date - because there are
still a bit of things about Tian Yu Jing which I myself do not understand!. At
present I am researching Lai Bu Yi's Cui Guan Pian, which may clear up some of
the grey areas of Tian Yu Jing.

It is my belief that all these schools have rights and wrongs. Their theories
and methods should be checked against scientific evidence and historical
testimony. We need careful research to rectify the situation.

I know Joseph Yu advocates that the Bagua should not change for the Southern
Hemisphere. Whether the Flying Star chart should be reversed is academic to me,
as I consider Flying Star a wrong method. I have not communicated with him. I
think he is wrong, but I still recognise that Joseph Yu is a knowledgeable
person and so is Francis Leyau, and I may not be right in some of the things I
write. I like Francis Leyau's attitude, as he said that if he finds that he is
wrong he will admit it.

I know the Liu Fa and Yang Gong people would love to use what I say against the
Flying Star people. But that is not the way. We need to cooperate, discuss
properly and learn from each other. Have we not quarreled enough? Admitting
one right can cover for all the wrongs we have!


Dear Pete,

Here are some notes showing that Andy is much mistakened that Shao Yung would
agree with him!. Andy had wrote:

In Huang Ji Jing Shih Shao Yung wrote : The Tao that established heaven is yin
and yang...the Tao that established earth is hardness and softness". Basically
put, it is the non-perceivable chi of yin and yang that produces the heavenly
bodies which in turn have an effect and influence on the earth. Heavenly and
earthly phenomena emerge from the intermingling of chi, chi emerges from Tao. It
is astonishing that Dr. Ong classifies it the other way and begins the process
with heaven, and after that, chi.

Andy does not realise that it was not Shao Yung who put forward the view that qi
is the origin of all things. Here is the historical testimony below

Tea Break......

The Philosophy of Life

Life is an endless struggle, full of frustrations and challenges, but eventually you find a hair stylist you like.

The real art of conversation is not only to say the right thing in the right place, but also to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.

Time may be a great healer but it's also a lousy beautician.

Brain cells come and go but fat cells live forever.

Life not only begins at forty; it begins to show.

You don't stop laughing because you grow old; you grow old because you stop laughing.

Age is important only if you are cheese and wine.

The only time, a woman wishes that she were a year older is when she is pregnant.

Part 2 of the posting, break it up, you know to make it less boring.

The Contradicting Philosophers

One commentator had noted that, around AD 1000, in Sung China, Shao Yung was a
minor figure in one of the two main groups of philosophers:

"Despite doctrinal disgreement among themselves, the Cheng brothers and their
friends and teachers Chou Tung I, Shao Yung and Chang Tsai were united in their
opposition to the economic reform movement. Ssuma Kuang (AD 1019-1088), himelf a
major scholar and historian, was the friend of both Shao Yung and Chang Tsai and
patron of the Cheng brothers, he was the most important political figure in the
anti-reform group. In a second camp were followers of the reformer Wang An
Shih... himself a poet and scholar..."

These Sung philosophers had differing views about fundamental concepts of qi,
Yin Yang:

"LIKE OTHER Neo-Confucianists, Chang Tsai (Chang Heng-ch'u, 1020-1077) drew his
inspiration chiefly from the Book of Changes. But unlike Chou Tun-i (Chou
Lien-hsi, 1017-1073) according to whom evolution proceeds from the Great
Ultimate through the two material forces (yin and yang) and the Five Agents
(Metal, Wood, Water, Fire, and Earth) to the myriad things, and unlike Shao Yung
( 1011- 1077) according to whom evolution proceeds from the Great Ultimate
through the two material forces and other stages to concrete things, Chang Tsai
identifies material force (ch'i) with the Great Ultimate itself. He discards
both yin and yang and the Five Agents as generative forces. To him, yin and yang
are merely two aspects of material force, and as such are basically one. As
substance, before consolidation takes place, material force is the Great
Vacuity. As function, in its activity and tranquillity, integration and
disintegration, and so forth, it is the Great Harmony. But the Great Vacuity and
the Great Harmony are the same as the Way (Tao), the One. As contraction and
expansion, the two aspects of material force are kuei-shen, or negative and
positive spiritual forces." (Wing-Tsit Chan, in Chinese Philosophy)

It can be seen that Shao Yung's view was not accepted by many of his colleague
philosophers. Also, it has to be noted that the concept of qi giving rise to
all things was not, as wrongly assumed by Andy, Shao Yung's view but that of
Chang Tsai. As the above indicates, Chang Tsai did not agree with Shao Yung.

Chu Xi's Stand

During that period, there was Chu Xi, the greatest of the Confucian philosopers.
Chu Xi disagreed with Shao Yung as well as with Chang Tsai's view of qi as the
origin of all things:

"Thus, in their discussions of the natural world, the traditional Chinese did
not go deeper than phenomenal surface of the reality. Questions delving deeper
into what one sees and accepts were not raised. Zhu Xi, for example, confessed
that his influential friend, Zhang Shi ??(1133-1180), did not approve his wish
to write a commentary on Shao Yong's ??(1011-1077) theory about the outside of
the world. The orthodox neo-Confucians shunned discussions of questions like
these. Such attitude can be seen in Zhu Xi's comment on the famous dialogue
between Cheng Yi ?? (1033-1107) and ShaoYong on where thunder comes from: On
Cheng Yi's saying, "Thunder comes from where it comes from," which had been
given in response to Shao Yong's question, "Where do you think [thunder] comes
from?", Zhu Xi's comment was: "Why must one know where it come from?"" (Yung
Sik Kim 2008)

"Scholars of the late Ming through early Qing period (mid-seventeenth to early
eighteenth century), notably, Wang Fuzhi (1619-92) and Dai Zhen (Tai Chen,
1723-77), disputed Zhu on philosophical and textual grounds. Whereas Zhu had
insisted on the priority of "pattern" over qi, (roughly, form over matter), Wang
and Dai followed the Northern Song thinker Zhang Zai in affirming the priority
of qi, viewing patterns as a posteriori evolutionary realizations of qi
interactions. They thought this account dissolved the threat of any hint of
dualism in cosmology, ontology and human nature. For his part, Zhu Xi would have
responded that, fundamentally, "pattern" is implicated in the very make-up and
possible configurations of qi; which is why the regular a posteriori patterns
can emerge. "Pattern" provides for the standing orders and processes, based on
the steady interactions of yin-yang, five phases, etc., that give rise to the
heaven-earth world order, with its full complement of ten thousand things. The
fundamental a priori patterns are thus necessary to the world order and provide
the fecund context in which the a posteriori forms emerge continuously. Wang and
Dai's qi-based view could not account for existence and the world order in this
sense. At the same time, Zhu did not think that "patterns" were absolutely
determinative. They just set certain "possibilities of order" that are realized
when the necessary qi conditions obtain. For the most part, he registered the
range of randomness and free flow in qi activity that is best exemplified in the
randomness of weather systems and seismic events." (Kirill O. Thompson 2007)

It will be seen that Chu Xi insisted that patterns give rise to qi and not the
other way round. Chu Xi's view is close to what Zeng Wen Chan wrote in Qing
Nang Xu and Huang Shih Kung in his Qing Nang Jing, that the Heaven produces qi:

QNX 2.15, 2.16: The source from the Red Sparrow gives rise to the benevolent qi.
Step by step explanation to enlighten the slow learner.

QNX 2.17, 2.18: One produces two and two produces three, three produces the ten
thousands things and this is known as the origin of evolution.

QNJ 1.34 & 1.35 Heaven consists of five planets. Earth consists of Five

QNJ 1.36 & 1.37 Heaven is divided into constellations. Earth is arranged
according to mountains and rivers.

QNJ 1.38 & 1.39 Qi transforms on the ground. Pattern magnifies from the sky.

QNJ 1.40 & 1.41 Based on pattern to evaluate qi. One can establish the
guideline for Man

It is not as Andy tried to mislead us, for these Sung philosphers could not
agree on the issues of Taiji, Yin Yang and qi. So, pick your choice, whom you
want to believe!

The Real Maxtrix

Despite the dispute between Chu Xi and Shao Yung, the person among those Sung
philosophers who was closest to the Truth was "Chou Tun-i (Chou Lien-hsi,
1017-1073) according to whom evolution proceeds from the Great Ultimate through
the two material forces (yin and yang) and the Five Agents (Metal, Wood, Water,
Fire, and Earth) to the myriad things".

Chou Tun-i's view is what the traditional Feng Shui master would know of the
evolution of the Great Ultimate into Yin Yang and then the 8 trigrams. This
evolution of the Great Ultimate into Yin Yang and then the 8 trigrams is
described in Confucius' Shou Kua commentary to the I Ching.

The word "qi" hardly appeared in the Confucian classics, with one or two mention
in the writings of Mencius.

One historical mention of "qi" was in a 655 BC context that qi was something

"In 655 BC it is reported that the Duke of Lu went up to the Divine Terrace to
observe the Ch'i at the equinoxes, solstices, and the beginnings of the four
seasons." (Walters 1987 p.238).

Duke of Lu's equinoxes, solstices & beginnings of 4 seasons are the 8 directions
of Bagua. In its earliest perspective, qi referred to some physically visible
atmospheric aura or impression. The "Divine Terrace" was actually a tower
serving as a gigantic gnomon stick. Such a tower serving as a gnomon was the
Chou Kung Tower, established during the Chou dynasty to measure variations of
the solar shadow.

What had happened was that many of the Sung philosophers had misappropriated a
word with a physical meaning and turns it into an abstract term alike to the
Greek "ether." The etymoloogy of the word "qi" shows it refers to evaporating
vapour. Yin Yang, whose etymology shows they merely mean darkness and sunlight,
were transformed into mysterious forces.

It is not wrong if some Sung philosphers wanted to borrow perfectly physical
terms for their discourses. I would liek to remind that these Sung philosophers
had disgreements about these terms. But, the moment someone wants to apply the
metaphysical usage of these terms for the real world of Feng Shui and astrology,
I must say he is an idiot.

The Sad Results

While these Sung philosophers argued among themselves, China was in deep
trouble, with rampant corruption and the national treasury virtually bankrupt.
One man sent the emperor an essay of "Ten Thousands Words", spelling out how to
salvage China. The young emperor asked that man to become prime minister - he
was Wang An Shih.

A major reason why the treasury was so empty was that in those days the major
part of the budget was used to buy clothes for the ministers and officials. So
Wang An Shih ordered the cloth stipend to be cut down. Vested interests
objected. The army then had a single large area to rear horses. Wang An Shih
wanted the rearing of horses to decentralise so that high transport costs could
be eliminated. The prime ministers tried to create a balanced budget.

Unfortunately for China, Wang An Shih was opposed by the nincompoop group of
philosophers rallied around Ssuma Hwang. Ssuma Hwang was friendly to many of
the corrupt leaders and raised illogical objections to Wang An Shih. Cvhi Xi
also sided Ssuma Hwang. Fortunately, for the prime minister, the emperor
favoured him. The unfortunate thing was that the emperor died after a few years
(probably poisoned).

At once, Ssuma Hwang saw his old friend the Empress Dowager and got Wang An Shih
sacked. The new emperor was young and the Empress Dowager was regent - she
reversed Wang An Shih's measures. The country slided into further ruins. When
the boy was matured, he found it too late to recall Wang An Shih.

Ssuma Hwang and Chu Xi were to write that they regretted opposing Wang An Shih.
They woke up too late to what Wang An Shih was trying to do. The enemies along
the northern borders eventually conquered Sung China and established the Mongol

All these Sung philosophers philosophied their country's future away, and among
them was Shao Yung, Chang Tsai and regretably Chu Xi himself. It goes to show
the values of their thoughts which contributed to the ruin of a great nation.


Still want to learn Fung Sui? LOL....